Monday, August 01, 2005


After a long time, watched Roja today. Everyone when they think about this movie, talk about Mani Ratnam's direction or A R Rahman's music. Yes I wanted to see this movie too for Mani Sir's direction. But there was one scence that struck me. When Nazer walks into Roja's room and tells her that he is very happy today that the goverment has agreed to release the terrorist in return for her husband's release. He tells her she will be happy as she will get her husband back, the ministers will be happy that they have got their scientist back, he is happy that this years of efforts are wasted, he is happy that those 23 military men who died catching the terrorist - their lives are wasted. He is happy for all of that.

I am sure that 99% of the people must have still sympathized with Roja, her plight, her frusteration - rarely someone must have thought about the others. What do we really do in such a situation, naturally no one can determine the cost of a life - is her husband's life important - is the 23 lives not worth anything - Can these two numbers be compared ? Can we say that 23 is bigger than 1 - so we should give 23 more importance ? It may look like I am rambling now. but In reality I am trying to put myself in a place where in I would have to make the decision, And what decision would I take ?

I know what the right decision would be - No Negotiation - If you do it once - u would have to do it again and again. There are people out there who die so that we can sleep in peace. Their efforts should not get wasted. Their life is more important than ours for they choose to protect us. And it is the duty of each one of us to respect it and give more importance to it.

Jai Hind.


Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

Hi Aatma, :)

Thanks for blogrolling me - I shall blogroll you too. Thanks for leaving your comments :)

01 August, 2005 00:49  
Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

One more suggestion - it wuld be great if you could put a blogroll me thing in ur site - so that readers can easily blogroll you.

01 August, 2005 01:35  
Blogger Prabu Karthik said...


points and counter points...thats Mani Ratnam's speciality

01 August, 2005 03:04  
Blogger AF said...

Hi Aatma,
Thanks for visiting. Welcome to the world of Blog.

01 August, 2005 08:20  
Blogger Aatma said...

Thanks Arjun, Prabhu and AF for visiting my site. I will add the blogroll me.


01 August, 2005 09:42  
Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...


I have blogged roll you now - check it out :)

01 August, 2005 15:20  
Blogger Aatma said...

Thanks Arjun, appreciate it yaar

01 August, 2005 21:18  
Blogger Ram.C said...

that's good thought provoking one, aatma..

keep going.

02 August, 2005 01:59  
Blogger Narayanan Venkitu said...

I was impressed by that dialogue.

First thought that came to me as i watched the movie the first time..( the day it got released Independence day..19??) was that it was too powerful a dialogue.

Reason - Mufti Mohammed Syed.! His daughter was kidnapped and the govt. released some militants to get her back.!!

While I you mentioned Roja was in my minds too..but again innocent people and army officers etc. who day down their life everyday.! We should never forget them / their sacrifices.

Nice post.!

02 August, 2005 16:56  
Blogger chutneypopcorn said...

Ok, where do I begin... I may sound elitist or just an AHole, but here goes...

Yes one life is better than the other. We assert this when we eat (plants/animals) or when we wear a shoe or buy a product born out of slavery or from WALMART. I am sceptical of chearing for any army personnel. Reason is this... Everyone clappped for the US Marines who went to Iraq. The men who went to Iraq or Kashmir are IDIOTS or forced by financial pressure.

Most if not all the wars are politically motivated. Hence if general people stop this nationalism b.s. which is nothing but a political propaganda then the governements will have no army to fight "their" wars.

So instead of seeing the macro details I tend to see a broader field.

Nationlism, patriotism, etc all stems from selfishness subtle may it be...

(just stop enrolling in the army)

02 August, 2005 16:58  
Blogger Aatma said...

Sorry Chutneypopcorn but I don't believe in your views. If everything works according to the rules then there will be no need for us to worry about. People need protection either in the form of Police from internal bad elements or Army from external bad elements. To undermine their role or to tell that there is no need for them is equivalent of telling I will keep my door open and sleep - because i believe in the good nature of the people. Can you do it better will you do it.

You say that people go and join the army because of their financial constraints. Boss there are thousands of other jobs to do, wherein you don't have to risk your life knowlingly. Then why join the army. Atleast in America people who join the army have various benefits, but for those in India they have a paltry sum, and little to no benefits. I don't think thats some incentive to join.

Naturally you cannot appreciate for you are unable to comprehend their importance, till something is available you don't realize.

About Political reasons, every citizen is responsible for the decision its goverment makes, to just simply sit outside and blame somebody, I don't believe in it either.

If you want to make a change in the society - Do it.

02 August, 2005 21:34  
Blogger Aatma said...

Thanks Ram and Narayanan Sir

02 August, 2005 21:35  
Blogger chutneypopcorn said...

Hi atma,

Not to sound repeatitive... Quoting from the Bhagavad Gita, one has to understand that these so called nationalism is a false identification... Nationalism is for the ignorant, as you have noticed famous scholars, scientists, doctors and theologan (buddha, krishna) have all not comfined themselves to a petty concept called nationalism, they saw the goodness of all human, plants and animals...

Nationalism is a changing concept, few descades ago there wasnot India, few years ago there wasnot USA. These are prime candidates to give us a clue nationalism is a changing phenominon. But environmentalism and humanitarinism is a constant thing. Why die for a temporary concept.

Okay, you donot know how many Indian try to get into the army for financial reasons. I say this with high confidence, because my brother father in law was a liutenant in the Indian Army... He had a calling in some sense, he mentioned that majority of the soldiers who join are max 10th grade pass, and join because they want their family to survive. This is a fact... There are some who join the army forces for nobel cause. See farenhite 9/11 none of the US senato's children are in the armed services (i hink only a handful) Arenot they patriortic, the passed the patriots bill defending the "american way"...

The day when people realize that nationalism is "temp" concept, sooner will there be peace.

Did you know the US Army get students by luring them for financial aid called ROTC. Most of the recruits are done in poorer parts of the society, blacks, hispanic and the low income white areas.

Please wake up from the illusion created by governments and patriortic movies.

Om Tat Sat.

03 August, 2005 09:11  
Blogger chutneypopcorn said...

In response to your statements,

The benefits to indian army people are good.

They get houses for 2-4 laks. There was a time when the army professionals used to sell their flats at a higher rate and make profit.

Their families are give free housing. All of them.

They have special stores that highely subsidises food and electronics... (Army stores).

Their students are enrolled freely into any CBSE schools.

The entire family has free health care thru CGHS.

They have a good retirement plan.

They have their own engineering and other school where they get addmissions,one such college is in Pune.

So please donot tell me that there are no benefits. I have many many friends in the army and I talked with facts to back me.


Did you know in America many students who join the ROTC for financial reasons. I know four students in the ROTC who joined for financial aid that is porvided for them. When I asked them why they joined they said most join for financial aid.

The army pays well compared to what the poor people can ever make have a job at a local McDonald.

Police and Army are two different things one is more political than the other.

I have more to say, but running short of time.

My aim is to not sit back and relax. I do my part which I cannot say it in a blog will in person. Educating people is how I aim to acheive the goal (non-coporative movement). One day as a Prof, I would be able to educate more students about seeing things as they truely are.

Being a revolutionary is not easy, I am just now starting, I have a long way to go.


03 August, 2005 09:26  
Blogger chutneypopcorn said...

One last thing...

Army ADS.

The Jews beleive that to evangelise G_D is to under estimate his powers. Similarly if people are so patriortic why should the army runs ads all the time.

The Indian army hhas very few ads, since they know that there are so many people who are begging for that job. There was actually a documentary for it.

While in America since the standard of living in higher there are more and more ads.

Observation about ads:

1. Most of the ads run either in the afternoon or late night as they know that people who have job will see tv then.

2. The rest of the ads are mostly during games and FOX ;-)

Have you seen an ARMY recruitment office is a rich or moderate part of town. They mostly are in the ghettos. Why? I know this as in Worcester all of the are in South Main, near QCC College, Plantation grafton st. All poorer neighbour hood.

Please give me a break can't you see a pattern.


03 August, 2005 09:41  
Blogger Aatma said...

Mr ChutneyPopcorn, every coin has two sides. Ok the army may be polictically motivated, for that matter anything the goverment does is politically motivated only, for their own gain or sometimes the country's gain too(agree it is a rarity). To undermine the importance of army is a foolish statement - forget political needs for a second - don't we need someone to protect the boundaries of the country - Unfortunately we are bounded by the boundaries - For a long time we have had the concept of a country and group of men who protected it. Maybe there was no India but there were smaller countries and that smaller countries had an army and that army encompassed people who protected it.

I think we are going in circles here - U are adressing the political issues and I am adressing matters of heart. The concept is simple - from start to end - there is one leader and many followers in all fields of life. Take Guru - Gurukul sytem, Professor - student relationship. In all these spheres people have believed in their leaders and followed them. So it happens in the army too. They have to believe that their leader is taking the right step and follow the order. If they don't then chaos will ensue.

One day you will become a Professor and that u will set an example to follow for your student. Some may say that whatu are doing is wrong, but your students will follow you, then you will understand what i am trying to say.

About Army targetting the ghettos and other places -- No rich family or middle class family people want their kids to go to the army - purely because of their kids losing their life. These kids even if they want are forced not to go.

Yes Patriotism is a hard trait as same as honesty in today's world.
Unfortuantely the world is divided in different parts, before this they had the concept of invasion, state to state there were fights. Atleast now people are constrained within this boundary. Understand the present scenario.

03 August, 2005 10:10  
Blogger chutneypopcorn said...

A prime example of a non-army state:

Is Canada and Swiss. Their army is more of peace keeping process. I believe that if Canada can do it so can others. I am being a leftist only to pleed with people that there can be another way to approach things a more humain way.

That is all. One way of approaching Canada like situation is to first break down walls that we as citizens of warring countries have build ourselves and by others under the false labels.

Yes I am addressing a political issue...


03 August, 2005 11:33  
Blogger Aatma said...

If we are lucky to have neighbours like Canada or Swiss does, then I agree to your suggestion. Our army is only to protect us - not to go and fight a war.

Breaking down the walls - If world becomes such a beautiful place then I am all for it

03 August, 2005 18:00  

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